She kicks, pulls, runs around. I can't grab her lip to twitch her either. I've tried a chain on her nose.
Answers:
I had a lovely, quiet and well broke Paint horse that had a bad experience with a vet with shots when he was 2, and he became almost impossible to vacinate with the smallest needle afterwards! So its funny how a quiet and well trained horse can panic and misbehave when they're afraid. My vet thought the horse was a monster, but in every other area of his life he was well broke. I used him for beginner 4-H kids to ride. He was just terrified of needles, and needed to learn that they wouldn't hurt him.
Then I read an article about training your horse to accept shots that really worked for this horse. Before long I could give him his innoculations without any assistance, just me, a plain halter and rope. It was not a fight, he was not afraid and no one got hurt. This is what I did.
Take a bunch of your horse's favorite treats with you. Put them in a pocket or someplace handy, but keep your hands free. Take along an alcohol swab, and a rubber band. Open the alcohol swab, let your horse smell it, and then rub their neck with it where you would normally give the shot. If your horse is smart, they will know this is a sign they're about to get a shot, and they will start their bad behavior, circling, and trying to get away. I wouldn't fight them, because your trying to fight and argue just makes them feel more confined, but just try to keep them turned and circling around you. Don't worry if they fret and get anxious, you're aren't trying to actually give them a shot yet, but they don't know it. At some point, take the rubber band and give them a "snap" with it. Not really hard, but enough that it is a mild pop. The kind that you'd feel, but wouldn't hurt really bad. As soon as you're finished with the pop, give your horse verbal praise and a treat.
Lead your horse away and forget about it for a while. Do something else altogether. Let him think about it. The rubber band didn't really hurt, and he got a treat. Hummm. A few minutes later, repeat the entire process. Let them sniff the alcohol swab, rub their neck, give them a pop with the rubber band, and then quickly give them the treat.
Don't overdo this. Once or twice a day is enough. Come out and do it a time or two for three or four days. Soon a horse learns what's coming. They know they're going to get the pop, and they know it will slightly sting, but it really doesn't hurt bad and they get the treat right away. They are prepared and not startled, but they haven't been hurt, confined or fought with. The key is to not actually really hurt your horse with the rubber band, obviously if you are too rough you could make the problem worse and not better!
Then one day come out, do the entire process of letting them smell the swab, rub their neck and then give them an actual innoculation. As soon as you're finished, give them their treat.
My gelding got so he didn't flinch at all with his shots. The shots didn't scare him because he knew something was coming, and he had learned that it would be quick, he wouldn't be really hurt and he'd get a reward when he was done.
Now, if he was getting big needles, frequent antibiotic injections or such, the problem probably would have returned. But small needles that are used for innoculations are much less painful and the horse can learn to be prepared and accept them. It probably sounds a bit bizarre, but it made a enormous difference with my horse.
If I ever needed to give that horse antibiotics I would seriously consider oral medications instead of shots. Price would not have been an object with him! If your horse is greedy enough they will normally eat grain mixed with medication, you may need to lace the grain with a wee bit of oil, molasses or honey to help the medictions stick to the grain.
If worse comes to worst you may need to haul him someplace with stocks, have him tranquilized or have the vets handle him. Hobbles and a twitch can also help, but they are only temperary band-aid solutions and they can scare a horse. And a panicy horse can still be very dangerous in stocks. So I would avoid any extra shots and use the training I recommended for the small, less painful type needles.
Good luck.
no srry
wait be nice pet him talk in a nice voice then boom giv em the shot
When you are brushing her, take your hand and slap her rump several times with an open hand.. do that for several days.. on the third day, put the needle between your fingers and pop her with that... That's how we got our horses used to it... you could also hobble her.. Ear twitching is another method.. You put your thumb in the ear (not the ear canal and fold the ear around your thumb... like holding a motorcycle handle bar..) GENTLY twist and GENTLY pull down.. Also grab a flap of skin on the top of the neck near the withers and have someone else give the shot.. Stand close to the shoulder to avoid damage to yourself...
You can also slip a chain under her lip and over her gums way above the top teeth, where the lip and gums meet.. Apply gentle pressure there... That is called a lip twitch...
Try grabbing a handful of neck, or try covering the eye on the side she will get it on.maybe take her by surprise. Be careful!
Read the book, The Man Who Listens to Horses.
You have to follow the procedur you would when giving her a shot for a few days, but iwthout actually giving the shot. Be pinching the skin a little and then genty slap it down, all while talking calmly. Also, just try having a shot thing with you for a while so she ddoesnt think every time its around it means its gonna be painful
If you need to give the shot IM, and ALL else fails, also, if you are an experienced horsperson; Back her into a straight stall or corner, hobble her front legs %26 run a rope from her halter to around a hind leg. pull the rope so she has to put her head down towards her leg, the wall should be able to support her from falling. Get somone to hold the rope while you inject her in the neck on the side her head is turned away from. Do it as quickly and as calmly as you can, all the while speaking
soothingly. DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU ARE IN ANY WAY INEXPERIENCED OR NERVOUS AROUND HORSES!. You will only suceed in freaking her out more and making her more physco,
Just to make it VERY clear. This is only for an emergency, if you own this horse then you ought to train it properly or give it to someone who can
As you groom her, pull up one of her feet and don't let it down, that way she knows she cannot dance around.
My goodness there are some mean so called horse people out there! Ear twtching can damage the cartilage in her ear, perminately making her lop eared. Please don't do that. Is she halter broke at all? Have you tried to give it to her while she is eating her grain? Horses are fight or flight animals. She is obviously scared. Is she willing to be pet and loved on? If you can get her to be calm in a confined area, loving on her and talking to her nicely, you can sneek it in. You definatley need more than one person to give an untrusting horse a shot. Worse case sinerio (if being sweet doesn't do it) you can halter her, put your back against her shoulder and rap her head/ neck around you body. This makes her wind passage smaller and also releases endorphans which will help her calm down. It helps to have a wall on the other side of her to lean on and one at her hind quarters so she can't back out of it. While she is rapped around you the other person can sneak in the shot on her rump. This is not a hard manuver, and is very humane. It may take a couple of trys before she does it quietly, but I have had great success with the must unwilling horses. Good Luck!
She need to be desensitized to slaps, pinches, and the sight of a hypodermic syringe. If there is not any time to do this beforehand, you might try a calming agent added to her feed to be useful.
You also might consider investing in the purchase of stocks (not the Wall Street kind!)if you have more than one horse that could be unpredictable.
I'm assuming that if she is injured and you are giving her meds/shots that you are in regular contact with your vet right now. If so, your vet might give you a valium prescription. Your vet might have some other ideas for you, but lacing her feed with valium before you have to give her the injections (if the injury type allows) might be a possibility. I have no idea what the injury type is though, so that might not be a possibility.
Good luck! Sounds like you have your work cut out for you.
when does she start to spaz? Does she begin to act up right as you put the needle in or before you even come close to her?
With my horses they used to pull away right before the needle went in. They knew because we lightly slap/poke the area that we are going to insert the needle, then we would stop to give the injection. So what I did was have one hand that was constantly poking/slapping the area (like I said not hard) so that they wern't sure when it was coming. That seemed to stop them pulling away. Now I can give one of my horses shots with out even haltering her.
I'm sure that you have probably tried tying her to a fence or something, maybe you could try giving her some feed to distract her.
Maybe you could figure out the pattern in which you give shots and switch it up. She may possibly be used to the pattern that you are using and knows whats coming.
Does she only act like this when shes getting shots?
You should try to correct her bad behavior so that you dont get yourself or someone else hurt. She is just being spoiled and getting away with it.
Sounds like the only option is to tie this horse down. She sounds really dangerous. If you don't wanna hobble her and tie her on the ground then, if she's used to hobbles, hobble her, get in a trailer, tie her around a rear pole, and either you or someone else give her the shot. There's also a spot on her shoulder that's similar to twitching her. I'm sorry I can't remember where I read this, but I remember reading it. If you can find out some information about that maybe it will help too.
I have a mare that tenses her muscles up so hard that we have to pry the needle out on some occasions. We can't give her a rump shot either because she will launch you 40 feet backwards if you try. At one point we gave up on shots altogether and got paste and pill forms of everything we could. She gets banamine and shots of progesterone to keep her from being an evil witch.
Have you tried the stud chain on the gums yet? We tried that and it immobilized her for a split second, long enough for my quick vet to get her in the neck and run away. If you have access to a restraining chute (palpation chutes work) you may want to try that. I know it's probably out of your way to do that but its work a try. I tried restraining my mare in my slant load trailer but that was dangerous and my trailer took a beating. Do you typically do IM in the neck or the rump? I know its probably impossible for you to do Subcutaneous injections because thats how it is with me and my mare.
Another thing I did was act like I was prepping to give her a shot and then walk away and not do it. After awhile she wasn't expecting a shot when I went through the motions. Then once a gave her a shot she didn't have a chance to react until I was well out of her way. That method outsmarted her for about a month and then stopped working.
Get a group of experienced, local horse people together and try to outwit that mare. If she needs her meds she needs to deal with it (it would be great if she understood that!).
Do you have tie stalls or a narrow chute? You could try putting up a butt chain behind the horse with it's head facing in in the stall. If there is a way you can stay outside the stall but still have access to her (if the walls are not too high on the sides) you could try and do at that way. You would at least be out of danger and she couldn't go anywhere. We had a horse like this too and unfortunately were never able to get him used to shots. The only time he would allow them was when he was really not feeling good (he had a history of colic).
Good Luck!
Shes a pretty big girl. I'm not sure but I think you can either buy or get something from your vet to sidate her. All you do is put it in her mouth like a dewormer and it makes her sleepy! lol But also try puting the chain from her lead in her mouth. Also, try purchasing a thing to blind her. They use them for race horses when they dont want to go into the gait. then she cant see what your doing.
You did not mention what type of injury she has.
If you have not tried a lip chain this would be the first thing I would try. If that does not work and it sounds like your safety is in danger with her kicking I would go to my next step.
Ask your vet if he has experience using a one legged hobble.(The figure 8 type)
You must first get the horse accustomed to it before you give the shot.
We have a horse that is absolutely impossible to give a shot to (He is owned by a vet go figure). He went for the first few years of his life without shots. Then one of my vets suggested the figure eight hobble.
This hobble will attach around his front leg on the pastern and then you lift his leg and attach the other side of the hobble below his elbow, high on his forearm. The horse is then holding his front leg up.
You will have to modify the "getting used to" period of the hobble because of the injury.
We put our horse in the arena (the vet wanted a larger area as opposed to a corral or round pen). First we put up his left leg, (for about 5 minutes) and then his right. We supervised him from about 30 feet away so he did not associate US with the hobble. He figured out he was not able to go anywhere, and now whenever we need to vaccinate him we put his hobble on and everything goes easily.
Again get help from a professional in learning how to do this properly.
Good luck to you.
Lord have mercy on the horse that you own.No wonder the poor thing is reacting in this manner...Doesnt know what nice is...Sounds like this horse needs a horsewhisperer first before it gets its shots...Id be kicking, and running too if I was treated this way when I went to get my shots.Horses react to the reactor.There are ways to get a horse to take its shots in a peaceful manner...Its called patience, love, caring, carresing, and praising, gentle grooming..Not restraining it with using a twitch on its nose, or hobbling, or chaining, or cranking his ears.. Horses will become head shy if given this treatment. A horse will stand still, if it has learned that the handler is not going to hurt them...I agree with one persons view on giving shots..Patting the horse, and putting the needle in while patting..It a simple procedure..The horse will get used to it.. some of these people suggestions are only going to make the horses more scared of the owner...
I have tried what paintgirl recommended, and it works. I get volunteered alot to give shots, and a friend's Arabian acted like yours. She is now alot better.
If your horse is injured and he needs shots ASAP, wherever you confine him or the method you use will probably not work a second time, I'm sure you already know this though.
Have a friend there to help and don't forget to lube the syringe!
You need a chute.
I had a farrier once that was very skilled in GENTLY (don't freak out here) "throwing" a horse that would not be trimmed. Once they were down, with an experienced assistant on the head, he could trim the feet on the wildest ones. Might work for a shot, but if the horse is injured I'd hate to hurt it worse in the process.
So I guess, get a chute.
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